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	<title>Comments on: Voting: Things are Not Always What They Seem</title>
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	<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/</link>
	<description>security, privacy, transparency.</description>
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		<title>By: jessica</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-407714</link>
		<dc:creator>jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-407714</guid>
		<description>you dumb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you dumb</p>
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		<title>By: jessica</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-631935</link>
		<dc:creator>jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-631935</guid>
		<description>you dumb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you dumb</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sarah</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-402631</link>
		<dc:creator>sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 20:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-402631</guid>
		<description>you are dumb</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you are dumb</p>
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		<title>By: Harvard&#8217;s Ben Adida on Vote By Mail and the Secret Ballot &#171; The No Vote By Mail Project</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-56731</link>
		<dc:creator>Harvard&#8217;s Ben Adida on Vote By Mail and the Secret Ballot &#171; The No Vote By Mail Project</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-56731</guid>
		<description>[...] Posted by Gentry on June 26th, 2007   I just ran accross a great editorial on Benlog.com , which I read somewhat regularly now. Ben&#8217;s a postdoc at Harvard who admits to reading No Vote By Mail occasionally. Anyway, his recent analysis of the fight over the secret ballots at the union level and the fight over the secret ballot in absentee and vote-by mail schemes is great&#8230;. So I&#8217;m going to quote it at length: [Link To Full Article at Benlog.com] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Posted by Gentry on June 26th, 2007   I just ran accross a great editorial on Benlog.com , which I read somewhat regularly now. Ben&#8217;s a postdoc at Harvard who admits to reading No Vote By Mail occasionally. Anyway, his recent analysis of the fight over the secret ballots at the union level and the fight over the secret ballot in absentee and vote-by mail schemes is great&#8230;. So I&#8217;m going to quote it at length: [Link To Full Article at Benlog.com] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-46061</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 04:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-46061</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Indeed the French proxy vote is worrisome to me, and it would be wise to study how often it is used, and what potential for coercion there is. I believe that the proxy vote reduces ballot secrecy significantly.

To your earlier point: I would argue that the situation described in the article, where a union member is asking you to endorse the union in person, is quite analogous to the remote voting scenario, where a spouse or other family member may coerce you. Of course it would be worse if the New York Times published your name and vote for all to see, but that&#039;s not the point here.

The point is that subtle coercion is *really* bad, and it can significantly affect the result of an election. Most people don&#039;t understand that &quot;the secret ballot&quot; means the &quot;incoercible ballot,&quot; nor do they understand how important that concept is. The words &quot;waive anonymity&quot; in your statement are relevant here: the secret ballot is not about the voter&#039;s *choice* to vote anonymously, it&#039;s about the voter being *forced* to vote anonymously.

On the continuum between perfect incoercibility and fully public ballots, I suspect most people think remote voting is not quite as good as perfect incoercibility, but it&#039;s definitely closer to it than to fully public ballots. I believe remote voting is much, much closer to fully public ballots, and thus that it presents a real danger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Indeed the French proxy vote is worrisome to me, and it would be wise to study how often it is used, and what potential for coercion there is. I believe that the proxy vote reduces ballot secrecy significantly.</p>
<p>To your earlier point: I would argue that the situation described in the article, where a union member is asking you to endorse the union in person, is quite analogous to the remote voting scenario, where a spouse or other family member may coerce you. Of course it would be worse if the New York Times published your name and vote for all to see, but that&#8217;s not the point here.</p>
<p>The point is that subtle coercion is *really* bad, and it can significantly affect the result of an election. Most people don&#8217;t understand that &#8220;the secret ballot&#8221; means the &#8220;incoercible ballot,&#8221; nor do they understand how important that concept is. The words &#8220;waive anonymity&#8221; in your statement are relevant here: the secret ballot is not about the voter&#8217;s *choice* to vote anonymously, it&#8217;s about the voter being *forced* to vote anonymously.</p>
<p>On the continuum between perfect incoercibility and fully public ballots, I suspect most people think remote voting is not quite as good as perfect incoercibility, but it&#8217;s definitely closer to it than to fully public ballots. I believe remote voting is much, much closer to fully public ballots, and thus that it presents a real danger.</p>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-631934</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jun 2007 04:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-631934</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Indeed the French proxy vote is worrisome to me, and it would be wise to study how often it is used, and what potential for coercion there is. I believe that the proxy vote reduces ballot secrecy significantly.

To your earlier point: I would argue that the situation described in the article, where a union member is asking you to endorse the union in person, is quite analogous to the remote voting scenario, where a spouse or other family member may coerce you. Of course it would be worse if the New York Times published your name and vote for all to see, but that&#039;s not the point here.

The point is that subtle coercion is *really* bad, and it can significantly affect the result of an election. Most people don&#039;t understand that &quot;the secret ballot&quot; means the &quot;incoercible ballot,&quot; nor do they understand how important that concept is. The words &quot;waive anonymity&quot; in your statement are relevant here: the secret ballot is not about the voter&#039;s *choice* to vote anonymously, it&#039;s about the voter being *forced* to vote anonymously.

On the continuum between perfect incoercibility and fully public ballots, I suspect most people think remote voting is not quite as good as perfect incoercibility, but it&#039;s definitely closer to it than to fully public ballots. I believe remote voting is much, much closer to fully public ballots, and thus that it presents a real danger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Indeed the French proxy vote is worrisome to me, and it would be wise to study how often it is used, and what potential for coercion there is. I believe that the proxy vote reduces ballot secrecy significantly.</p>
<p>To your earlier point: I would argue that the situation described in the article, where a union member is asking you to endorse the union in person, is quite analogous to the remote voting scenario, where a spouse or other family member may coerce you. Of course it would be worse if the New York Times published your name and vote for all to see, but that&#8217;s not the point here.</p>
<p>The point is that subtle coercion is *really* bad, and it can significantly affect the result of an election. Most people don&#8217;t understand that &#8220;the secret ballot&#8221; means the &#8220;incoercible ballot,&#8221; nor do they understand how important that concept is. The words &#8220;waive anonymity&#8221; in your statement are relevant here: the secret ballot is not about the voter&#8217;s *choice* to vote anonymously, it&#8217;s about the voter being *forced* to vote anonymously.</p>
<p>On the continuum between perfect incoercibility and fully public ballots, I suspect most people think remote voting is not quite as good as perfect incoercibility, but it&#8217;s definitely closer to it than to fully public ballots. I believe remote voting is much, much closer to fully public ballots, and thus that it presents a real danger.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Backert</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-44010</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Backert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-44010</guid>
		<description>I forgot to add an additional comment to the &quot;Things are Not Always What They Seem&quot; discussion. If I remember correctly you have dual American\French citizenship, yes? In the French system, proxy voting is often allowed. Arguably proxy voting can be susceptible to the same level of coercion as remote voting. By your definition this could be an example of &quot;holding an election without the protection of a secret ballot&quot; without remote voting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to add an additional comment to the &#8220;Things are Not Always What They Seem&#8221; discussion. If I remember correctly you have dual American\French citizenship, yes? In the French system, proxy voting is often allowed. Arguably proxy voting can be susceptible to the same level of coercion as remote voting. By your definition this could be an example of &#8220;holding an election without the protection of a secret ballot&#8221; without remote voting.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Backert</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-631933</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Backert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-631933</guid>
		<description>I forgot to add an additional comment to the &quot;Things are Not Always What They Seem&quot; discussion. If I remember correctly you have dual AmericanFrench citizenship, yes? In the French system, proxy voting is often allowed. Arguably proxy voting can be susceptible to the same level of coercion as remote voting. By your definition this could be an example of &quot;holding an election without the protection of a secret ballot&quot; without remote voting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I forgot to add an additional comment to the &#8220;Things are Not Always What They Seem&#8221; discussion. If I remember correctly you have dual AmericanFrench citizenship, yes? In the French system, proxy voting is often allowed. Arguably proxy voting can be susceptible to the same level of coercion as remote voting. By your definition this could be an example of &#8220;holding an election without the protection of a secret ballot&#8221; without remote voting.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Backert</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-42873</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Backert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 04:07:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-42873</guid>
		<description>Now I&#039;m not sure that &quot;voting by mail, which does amount, in fact, to &#039;holding an election without the protection of a secret ballot&#039;&quot; is a wholly accurate statement. Even if you argue that remote voting offers the potential for the loss of the protection of a secret ballot, their is no prerequisite to waive anonymity and they are hardly analogous.

Since you brought up union elections and that &quot;Things are Not Always What They Seem,&quot; in the world of union elections there is often significant pressure on voters (read coercion) at the polls. Remote voting can actually be used as a tool to reduce this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I&#8217;m not sure that &#8220;voting by mail, which does amount, in fact, to &#8216;holding an election without the protection of a secret ballot&#8217;&#8221; is a wholly accurate statement. Even if you argue that remote voting offers the potential for the loss of the protection of a secret ballot, their is no prerequisite to waive anonymity and they are hardly analogous.</p>
<p>Since you brought up union elections and that &#8220;Things are Not Always What They Seem,&#8221; in the world of union elections there is often significant pressure on voters (read coercion) at the polls. Remote voting can actually be used as a tool to reduce this.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Backert</title>
		<link>http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/comment-page-1/#comment-631932</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Backert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 04:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://benlog.com/articles/2007/05/29/voting-things-are-not-always-what-they-seem/#comment-631932</guid>
		<description>Now I&#039;m not sure that &quot;voting by mail, which does amount, in fact, to &#039;holding an election without the protection of a secret ballot&#039;&quot; is a wholly accurate statement. Even if you argue that remote voting offers the potential for the loss of the protection of a secret ballot, their is no prerequisite to waive anonymity and they are hardly analogous.

Since you brought up union elections and that &quot;Things are Not Always What They Seem,&quot; in the world of union elections there is often significant pressure on voters (read coercion) at the polls. Remote voting can actually be used as a tool to reduce this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now I&#8217;m not sure that &#8220;voting by mail, which does amount, in fact, to &#8216;holding an election without the protection of a secret ballot&#8217;&#8221; is a wholly accurate statement. Even if you argue that remote voting offers the potential for the loss of the protection of a secret ballot, their is no prerequisite to waive anonymity and they are hardly analogous.</p>
<p>Since you brought up union elections and that &#8220;Things are Not Always What They Seem,&#8221; in the world of union elections there is often significant pressure on voters (read coercion) at the polls. Remote voting can actually be used as a tool to reduce this.</p>
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